We shared with the NYAG that these types of boxes in our games are widely used, not just in video games but in the tangible world as well, where generations have grown up opening baseball card packs and blind boxes and bags, and then trading and selling the items they receive.
I’m not a big fan of Valve’s use of loot boxes. But I’m also not happy about the proposed solution of “Just collect blood samples from all users”. That doesn’t protect kids, and risks harm and increased surveillance to many other users. It also means companies in similar situations to Valve are forced to safeguard data they didn’t want to be involved with.
I don’t buy that Valve is fully at fault on the concept of targeting children. I don’t see how parents are held at gunpoint to attach credit card data to Steam accounts, or to check the “remember my info” box. Valve has also attempted to add adequate parental account controls. The main reason I oppose Valve on loot boxes is those shouldn’t be used on anyone. I’d like the NYAG to equalize pressure on sports betting sites.
The TF2 loot crates were the worst, but you could get around them for crafting except for visuals. What’s crazy to me is that people are getting mad over visuals in loot boxes and that the gambling is largely over that. I don’t think you can put all the shit leading up to that to one company, yet bureaucrats persistently try to do it to avoid acknowledging their own dismal efforts to get their feet wet in implementing some basic legislation on the matter.
Before it used to be Asian MMOs that basically targeted people with addictive personalities with paid for RNG boosts that gave actual in-game advantages (and they will still exist, because they are not loot boxes, just dice rolls), now people are getting this invested over skins and 3D models. We need to address the core of the problem, because the same people falling for this bullshit are also the ones who fall for populist reactionary political bullshit pushing scammers onto our governments. Education and our social nets are clearly failing, and going after one of the better companies that’s guilty of this is not going to do anything when the problem is literally coming from the highest tiers of government as they rush to get their friends and family invested in predatory ventures. It’s sort of like living in Nazi Germany and thinking the most important thing to complain about is whether businesses forced to be sold are really getting their money’s worth instead of being forced to sell to whomever can buy them up the soonest.
I’m not a big fan of Valve’s use of loot boxes. But I’m also not happy about the proposed solution of “Just collect blood samples from all users”.
It also might not be exactly what NY is asking for, even if that’s how Valve would like to frame it. The actual ask might be to just stop profiting from gambling.
NY has submitted legislative bill proposals on making age verification checks mandatory at the OS level, restriction of access to social media without Age Verification, and other such proposals and new infrastructure like their Mobile ID, all point to a push for age verification. They also are pushing legislation for things like outlawing 3D printing. In conjunction with their push to say the Valve lawsuit is about child gambling rather than gambling full stop (including child gambling as a way to get people to go along with it, because gambling is illegal for adults too in NY), is extremely telling.
This isn’t happening in a vacuum. I’m pretty sure Valve wouldn’t have made this statement about what the NYAG’s office request if they couldn’t back it up with documentation. Especially in light of them being sued. I’m sure they will absolutely bring said documentation with them to court.
I’d bet good money that the AG’s office absolutely did ask for that and Valve refused and that’s why they are being sued.
The solution of “Just collect blood samples from all users” is the law. Gambling laws require that the company providing a gambling service verify the age of the user to prevent underage gambling. If Valve is providing a gambling service then by law they should have age verification. So far, legally, what Valve has been doing is not gambling and part of this lawsuit is proving that what Valve is doing is gambling, and if it is gambling then Valve is doing an inadequate job at verifying the ages of the users and thus is breaking the law.
I’d like the NYAG to equalize pressure on sports betting sites.
As far as I know online sports betting sites are already required to verify the age and identity of the user. Outside of changing the laws I don’t see what pressure you’re expecting.
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I’m not a big fan of Valve’s use of loot boxes. But I’m also not happy about the proposed solution of “Just collect blood samples from all users”. That doesn’t protect kids, and risks harm and increased surveillance to many other users. It also means companies in similar situations to Valve are forced to safeguard data they didn’t want to be involved with.
I don’t buy that Valve is fully at fault on the concept of targeting children. I don’t see how parents are held at gunpoint to attach credit card data to Steam accounts, or to check the “remember my info” box. Valve has also attempted to add adequate parental account controls. The main reason I oppose Valve on loot boxes is those shouldn’t be used on anyone. I’d like the NYAG to equalize pressure on sports betting sites.
The TF2 loot crates were the worst, but you could get around them for crafting except for visuals. What’s crazy to me is that people are getting mad over visuals in loot boxes and that the gambling is largely over that. I don’t think you can put all the shit leading up to that to one company, yet bureaucrats persistently try to do it to avoid acknowledging their own dismal efforts to get their feet wet in implementing some basic legislation on the matter.
Before it used to be Asian MMOs that basically targeted people with addictive personalities with paid for RNG boosts that gave actual in-game advantages (and they will still exist, because they are not loot boxes, just dice rolls), now people are getting this invested over skins and 3D models. We need to address the core of the problem, because the same people falling for this bullshit are also the ones who fall for populist reactionary political bullshit pushing scammers onto our governments. Education and our social nets are clearly failing, and going after one of the better companies that’s guilty of this is not going to do anything when the problem is literally coming from the highest tiers of government as they rush to get their friends and family invested in predatory ventures. It’s sort of like living in Nazi Germany and thinking the most important thing to complain about is whether businesses forced to be sold are really getting their money’s worth instead of being forced to sell to whomever can buy them up the soonest.
It also might not be exactly what NY is asking for, even if that’s how Valve would like to frame it. The actual ask might be to just stop profiting from gambling.
This is kind of a naive take.
NY has submitted legislative bill proposals on making age verification checks mandatory at the OS level, restriction of access to social media without Age Verification, and other such proposals and new infrastructure like their Mobile ID, all point to a push for age verification. They also are pushing legislation for things like outlawing 3D printing. In conjunction with their push to say the Valve lawsuit is about child gambling rather than gambling full stop (including child gambling as a way to get people to go along with it, because gambling is illegal for adults too in NY), is extremely telling.
This isn’t happening in a vacuum. I’m pretty sure Valve wouldn’t have made this statement about what the NYAG’s office request if they couldn’t back it up with documentation. Especially in light of them being sued. I’m sure they will absolutely bring said documentation with them to court.
I’d bet good money that the AG’s office absolutely did ask for that and Valve refused and that’s why they are being sued.
Right, as if anyone actually cares about the children ™️
The solution of “Just collect blood samples from all users” is the law. Gambling laws require that the company providing a gambling service verify the age of the user to prevent underage gambling. If Valve is providing a gambling service then by law they should have age verification. So far, legally, what Valve has been doing is not gambling and part of this lawsuit is proving that what Valve is doing is gambling, and if it is gambling then Valve is doing an inadequate job at verifying the ages of the users and thus is breaking the law.
As far as I know online sports betting sites are already required to verify the age and identity of the user. Outside of changing the laws I don’t see what pressure you’re expecting.