I probably hate Microsoft roughly as much as most people here but in a lot of ways Windows is way more polished than Linux. The second you try something “unconventional” in Linux the shit is going to hit the fan. Fractional scale DPI - half the apps crap their pants. On screen keyboard - and don’t get me started with OSK over Firefox in kiosk mode (for example in touch screen settings). Also try to make a custom shortcut on your gnome desktop to run some application with some arguments without writing config files in random directories you have to Google and reloading some configs via a terminal.
Microsoft really went downhill fast and certainly adds a lot of crap to windows lately, but sadly in the Linux world we don’t have 1-3 well polished distros, we have hundreds of them. All good at one or two things, but suck at everything else. There a so many options the choice alone is probably the biggest reason everyday people will not switch to Linux if their device doesn’t already come with Linux. Even people thinking about switching end up with analysis paralysis because everybody tells them stuff like, try it - if you don’t like it try something else. As if they have nothing better to do than trying Linux distros all day long.
You say Linux, but I think you’re talking about Gnome specifically. I’d recommend trying KDE and seeing how it handles your problems. You can install multiple DEs and see what works best for you.
I get what you are saying and maybe I’ll find some time to do that, but I hope you also see the irony in an answer like that, because the typical user couldn’t care less about Gnome vs KDE.
I was about to comment the same - shitting itself when trying to do something nonstandard is a Gnome thing, not a Linux thing :^)
I also fully understand that new users are not aware of what the different components are and “what they do” (how they influence the UX) but they very much do make or break their “Linux experience”. Personally I dislike Gnome because it exposes barely any settings, and it’s “simple” to the point where it feels almost like a toy to me - kinda like macOS feels. Some people might be looking for that, and I don’t judge them, but I think it’s important to make an informed decision on simplicity and “guardrails” vs flexibility and customization. The same goes for immutable vs “traditional”, rolling vs releases, etc.
You don’t need to care about or understand the details, but the choice that the “Linux ecosystem” offers is one of its best parts, and understanding the implications of the ones you make is very important. It also helps avoid getting frustrated in “Linux can’t do this” situations by knowing that maybe it’s just your environment - believe me, unless it’s about running some proprietary code that the vendor is uncooperative about, “Linux” can do it. It might require some lines of code to glue together some pieces, but the “computing” things that “Linux can’t do” are very close to 0.
The typical user couldn’t care less about Windows VS Linux, but it makes it difference. I don’t know that it fixes the issues, but it might. It’s also an option you have because you’re on Linux, not Windows. You get a choice, and can figure out what works for you. It isn’t ironic, because that why you choose Linux. If you don’t want a choice and just want the garbage MS puts out, you don’t need to make any more choices. If you want options then you need to actually make choices too (though most aren’t permanent, like DEs, and you can swap between them).
The majority of people probably can’t even get over the hump of imaging a USB drive.
I like to think of the average person as my mom. Can my mom plug in a flash drive in a computer? Yeah. Does she know what Linux is? Nope. Can she google about Linux? Yeah. Will she get confused and inundated with the hundreds of “linux” versions? Uh yeah.
And then if she does somehow download a .iso, she’d probably copy and paste the .iso onto the flash drive and have no idea what Rufus or Balena Etcher is.
And to be honest, most people don’t even need a computer nowadays. Their smart phones does everything. There is no need to have a computer anymore.
This is exactly the type of shit I’ve been trying to explain to the Linux fanboys for years and all of them dismiss outright.
Until simple shit like this is easy for the average person, Linux will never replace Windows as a default OS option for regular users. 99% of people are scared of config files and the terminal, and they’re still just too commonly needed in every distro.
A LOT of work has been done to minimize it, but there’s always still basic functionality that just isn’t in the GUI. That’s not an issue for most of us here… But it is for most people. Fediverse users are a small minority.
This is a big reason why most won’t switch. Linux can be difficult to get started with and Windows really makes things a lot easier for the average person.
I tried to switch over to Linux this weekend, I gave up and switched back to Windows last night. I’m not completely computer illiterate, I know how to fix things enough that my colleagues often ask me (the administrative assistant) about simple stuff before going to IT.
I really like the Linux environment and I found alternatives to my frequently used programs, but the one thing I really use my computer most is to play World of Warcraft. I spent hours trying to get it working and I couldn’t. I don’t understand the terminal stuff, GitHub is confusing, and there are so many obscure forums with info I don’t understand. With Windows, the install is incredibly simple and I had my previous setup running within 2 hours.
I WANT to switch to Linux, but until I can run wow a lot easier, it looks like I won’t be. I’m not fully giving up on Linux, it just won’t be on my main machine.
It’s really similar to a conversation I had with a classmate on Android vs iPhone. He just didn’t get why I have an iPhone; “Android is more open”, “you have more options”, etc. I had to explain that it just works; I get a new phone when my old one is no longer supported, then all I have to do is sign in and my phone is back to where it was. Yes, it’s a walled garden, yes there are things Apple does that I don’t like, but the phone itself is simple and easy to upgrade. It just works.
WoW was one of the first things that was working on Linux with wine. It takes 2 seconds to setup bnet with something like Lutris and only requires the user to follow basic on screen prompts. No terminal, no configuration files.
In fact, I just googled “setup wow on Linux” and the first 10 results were tutorials for installing Lutris and just letting it do it for you. Hell even my mom figured out how to do this on PopOS and she’s not that technical.
I feel like this is the kind of condescending comment mentioned above because you assume that I didn’t try those instructions. Maybe I’m more of an average PC user than I thought and just more experienced in Windows than my colleagues, so I know how to fix Windows specific problems 🤷♀️
I don’t know what to tell you. I spent 6 hours following all of those instructions trying to get it working and it didn’t work. I reinstalled Windows, downloaded an exe, and had wow running as soon as it updated. That’s the kind of simplicity Windows provides to an average user, a quick install vs 10 different sets of instructions.
Like I said, I’m not giving up on Linux, but my game machine is Windows for now.
Yup. Hi. I’m one of those people. Everytime I’ve tried to use Linux in the past has come with a massive headache and constant googling to figure out the bare minimums. Windows? Literally holds your hand and just works. Any issues I’ve had with windows I can solve in a single google. I’ve got to delve into obscure forums and try to piece shit together on my own for Linux and I am not about to make my home PC a fuckin homework problem just to use.
What do you use the terminal and config files for? I mainly use bazzite now but after a fresh install the most I do is login to steam and change some settings in Firefox. I copy paste my directory settings for imports on darktable to point to my nas but thats probably the most advanced thing I do
Also try to make a custom shortcut on your gnome desktop to run some application with some arguments without writing config files in random directories you have to Google and reloading some configs via a terminal.
Dafuck. I will have to google it in Windows too. And no, I doubt Win experience is going to be any better, unless there is a “download some .exe from random site and run it to install GUI program” shortcut, which itself is a questionable thing to do (ok-ok, Microslop taught too many people that it should be OK)
Buut
everyday people will not switch to Linux if their device doesn’t already come with Linux
Been thinking/saying this all along. Terminal and different way of doing things is not an obstacle, just walk into nearest computer store and see what OS they come with. Then ask a question whether some, say, doctor is going to even ask if <whatever OS is pre-installed> is the best choice for them. Lots of people have lots of more important things to do :)
To make a shortcut on your desktop on windows. Right click element -> shortcut on desktop. To change arguments: right click shortcut -> Properties. Done.
No try to explain how gnome does it in a comment 🤣
That linked thread is about keyboard shortcuts btw, not at all what this conversation is about. Which would be creating a link (called shortcut on windows) on the desktop that executes a program with some custom parameters.
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I probably hate Microsoft roughly as much as most people here but in a lot of ways Windows is way more polished than Linux. The second you try something “unconventional” in Linux the shit is going to hit the fan. Fractional scale DPI - half the apps crap their pants. On screen keyboard - and don’t get me started with OSK over Firefox in kiosk mode (for example in touch screen settings). Also try to make a custom shortcut on your gnome desktop to run some application with some arguments without writing config files in random directories you have to Google and reloading some configs via a terminal.
Microsoft really went downhill fast and certainly adds a lot of crap to windows lately, but sadly in the Linux world we don’t have 1-3 well polished distros, we have hundreds of them. All good at one or two things, but suck at everything else. There a so many options the choice alone is probably the biggest reason everyday people will not switch to Linux if their device doesn’t already come with Linux. Even people thinking about switching end up with analysis paralysis because everybody tells them stuff like, try it - if you don’t like it try something else. As if they have nothing better to do than trying Linux distros all day long.
You say Linux, but I think you’re talking about Gnome specifically. I’d recommend trying KDE and seeing how it handles your problems. You can install multiple DEs and see what works best for you.
I get what you are saying and maybe I’ll find some time to do that, but I hope you also see the irony in an answer like that, because the typical user couldn’t care less about Gnome vs KDE.
God forbid you should have options.
I was about to comment the same - shitting itself when trying to do something nonstandard is a Gnome thing, not a Linux thing :^)
I also fully understand that new users are not aware of what the different components are and “what they do” (how they influence the UX) but they very much do make or break their “Linux experience”. Personally I dislike Gnome because it exposes barely any settings, and it’s “simple” to the point where it feels almost like a toy to me - kinda like macOS feels. Some people might be looking for that, and I don’t judge them, but I think it’s important to make an informed decision on simplicity and “guardrails” vs flexibility and customization. The same goes for immutable vs “traditional”, rolling vs releases, etc.
You don’t need to care about or understand the details, but the choice that the “Linux ecosystem” offers is one of its best parts, and understanding the implications of the ones you make is very important. It also helps avoid getting frustrated in “Linux can’t do this” situations by knowing that maybe it’s just your environment - believe me, unless it’s about running some proprietary code that the vendor is uncooperative about, “Linux” can do it. It might require some lines of code to glue together some pieces, but the “computing” things that “Linux can’t do” are very close to 0.
The typical user couldn’t care less about Windows VS Linux, but it makes it difference. I don’t know that it fixes the issues, but it might. It’s also an option you have because you’re on Linux, not Windows. You get a choice, and can figure out what works for you. It isn’t ironic, because that why you choose Linux. If you don’t want a choice and just want the garbage MS puts out, you don’t need to make any more choices. If you want options then you need to actually make choices too (though most aren’t permanent, like DEs, and you can swap between them).
Gnome works completely fine. It’s probably the most bug-free DE I’ve ever used. And yes I use fractional scaling.
The majority of people probably can’t even get over the hump of imaging a USB drive.
I like to think of the average person as my mom. Can my mom plug in a flash drive in a computer? Yeah. Does she know what Linux is? Nope. Can she google about Linux? Yeah. Will she get confused and inundated with the hundreds of “linux” versions? Uh yeah.
And then if she does somehow download a .iso, she’d probably copy and paste the .iso onto the flash drive and have no idea what Rufus or Balena Etcher is.
And to be honest, most people don’t even need a computer nowadays. Their smart phones does everything. There is no need to have a computer anymore.
This is exactly the type of shit I’ve been trying to explain to the Linux fanboys for years and all of them dismiss outright.
Until simple shit like this is easy for the average person, Linux will never replace Windows as a default OS option for regular users. 99% of people are scared of config files and the terminal, and they’re still just too commonly needed in every distro.
A LOT of work has been done to minimize it, but there’s always still basic functionality that just isn’t in the GUI. That’s not an issue for most of us here… But it is for most people. Fediverse users are a small minority.
Can you give a concrete example?
This is a big reason why most won’t switch. Linux can be difficult to get started with and Windows really makes things a lot easier for the average person.
I tried to switch over to Linux this weekend, I gave up and switched back to Windows last night. I’m not completely computer illiterate, I know how to fix things enough that my colleagues often ask me (the administrative assistant) about simple stuff before going to IT.
I really like the Linux environment and I found alternatives to my frequently used programs, but the one thing I really use my computer most is to play World of Warcraft. I spent hours trying to get it working and I couldn’t. I don’t understand the terminal stuff, GitHub is confusing, and there are so many obscure forums with info I don’t understand. With Windows, the install is incredibly simple and I had my previous setup running within 2 hours.
I WANT to switch to Linux, but until I can run wow a lot easier, it looks like I won’t be. I’m not fully giving up on Linux, it just won’t be on my main machine.
It’s really similar to a conversation I had with a classmate on Android vs iPhone. He just didn’t get why I have an iPhone; “Android is more open”, “you have more options”, etc. I had to explain that it just works; I get a new phone when my old one is no longer supported, then all I have to do is sign in and my phone is back to where it was. Yes, it’s a walled garden, yes there are things Apple does that I don’t like, but the phone itself is simple and easy to upgrade. It just works.
WoW was one of the first things that was working on Linux with wine. It takes 2 seconds to setup bnet with something like Lutris and only requires the user to follow basic on screen prompts. No terminal, no configuration files.
In fact, I just googled “setup wow on Linux” and the first 10 results were tutorials for installing Lutris and just letting it do it for you. Hell even my mom figured out how to do this on PopOS and she’s not that technical.
I feel like this is the kind of condescending comment mentioned above because you assume that I didn’t try those instructions. Maybe I’m more of an average PC user than I thought and just more experienced in Windows than my colleagues, so I know how to fix Windows specific problems 🤷♀️
I don’t know what to tell you. I spent 6 hours following all of those instructions trying to get it working and it didn’t work. I reinstalled Windows, downloaded an exe, and had wow running as soon as it updated. That’s the kind of simplicity Windows provides to an average user, a quick install vs 10 different sets of instructions.
Like I said, I’m not giving up on Linux, but my game machine is Windows for now.
Yup. Hi. I’m one of those people. Everytime I’ve tried to use Linux in the past has come with a massive headache and constant googling to figure out the bare minimums. Windows? Literally holds your hand and just works. Any issues I’ve had with windows I can solve in a single google. I’ve got to delve into obscure forums and try to piece shit together on my own for Linux and I am not about to make my home PC a fuckin homework problem just to use.
Config files and terminals? Huh? Why would you need any of that
You would have to run OpenSUSE tumbleweed to get the GUI equivalent of windows configuration.
Yast has a GUI app for everything from Samba setup to Bootloader config.
The trouble is: initially there is a learning curve to SUSE that is different than something like Mint
What do you use the terminal and config files for? I mainly use bazzite now but after a fresh install the most I do is login to steam and change some settings in Firefox. I copy paste my directory settings for imports on darktable to point to my nas but thats probably the most advanced thing I do
Excuses for staying on windows, primarily.
Dafuck. I will have to google it in Windows too. And no, I doubt Win experience is going to be any better, unless there is a “download some .exe from random site and run it to install GUI program” shortcut, which itself is a questionable thing to do (ok-ok, Microslop taught too many people that it should be OK)
Buut
Been thinking/saying this all along. Terminal and different way of doing things is not an obstacle, just walk into nearest computer store and see what OS they come with. Then ask a question whether some, say, doctor is going to even ask if <whatever OS is pre-installed> is the best choice for them. Lots of people have lots of more important things to do :)
To make a shortcut on your desktop on windows. Right click element -> shortcut on desktop. To change arguments: right click shortcut -> Properties. Done. No try to explain how gnome does it in a comment 🤣
Spoiler 1: I don’t use gnome
Spoiler 2: https://askubuntu.com/questions/525482/how-can-i-assign-a-keyboard-shortcut-for-the-script-that-i-have-created
Clown
That linked thread is about keyboard shortcuts btw, not at all what this conversation is about. Which would be creating a link (called shortcut on windows) on the desktop that executes a program with some custom parameters.
And which got removed from GNOME. Plus one point for not using it
Linux-bad-because-my-windows-ways-do-not-work is still laughable