- 0 Posts
- 27 Comments
white supremacists who came up with the verbiage you don’t like in the room right now?
Nah, just their legacy…
no real reason to split hairs
Not ignoring one of the largest crimes against humanity = splitting hairs… Interesting.
don’t want to be associated with white people, I guess. I would call that racism honestly. Would you call that Asian supremacy?
You do realize you are the only person separating people based on skin color? My wife is German, I don’t hold her country’s past against her. But, if she was a Holocaust denier, or attempted to become a Nazi apologist, things would be different.
“OUR SLAVERY ISN’T AS BAD, AS THOSE YUCKY WHITES!”
The internalized guilt is strong with you…
I don’t know that Muslims are white tho… So that’s not very careful about language.
Islam is a religion you idiot, it’s not a race, or an ethnicity…Also, you are the only person legitimately utilizing skin color to categorize people. I don’t care what your pigmentation is, that’s not the thing that makes you a racist moron.
don’t generally split hairs on enslaving people to make a racist argument that my people are better in some way
We’re not talking about modern people, nor are we blaming modern people for their ancestors behaviour. We are examining the crimes historic people did to other historic people, which do vary in different degrees in scale and violence.
The racism you are accused of isn’t because of your people’s past, it’s because you are still utilizing the same racist classification system and justifications that led to their crimes in the first place.
would I prefer being an Asian woman being group raped by Asian men until death, would I rather be castrated and worked to death in persia, would I rather he worked to death an whipped on a plantation, would I rather be a house slave for the Ting (which by the way they said they were very nice to their slaves and I bet they was never a bad experience!), would I rather be a Chinese space to the Khan?
Lol, a lot of writing to admit you just don’t care about the suffering caused by chattel slavery in America. I didn’t claim that there weren’t horrific versions of slavery in east Asia, though you are exaggerating certain aspects. What I claimed is that there is a difference in scope and cruelty, compared between the two, which is just a fact.
none of them sound like a race is better than the other,
Lol, still about race for you huh.
you are making a racial argument based on the nuances of slavery and it’s kinda silly!
Lol, ethnicity does not = race you fucking idiot.
The whole point of this is that race is construct that can’t be used to actually examine the ethnic prejudices that happened in a specific area at a specific time.
Racist
Says the person defending an argument developed by white supremacists…
Do I put a value difference between the Atlantic slave trade/chattel slavery and the sexual slavery of the Vietnamese women, or Korean women? No I guess I don’t! Every version of slavery is both abhorrent and devalues human life, and a well kept slave is functionally still a slave.
Lol, so the amount of people, the amount of violence, the amount of time it’s practiced, and for what reasons are all meaningless to you?
So if you had a choice of being from Africa and taken from their homeland and forced into perpetual slavery in the US, where your children could be whipped to death in front of you, or sold down the river for no reason. Or you could be in indebted servitude to a rich family in the tang dynasty who used you as a doorman, but you still got to go home to your family who weren’t enslaved at the end of the day.
Both choices would be equal for you? That’s just a false equivocation that is willfully ignorant to the actual human suffering that’s occurred.
This is just as bad as people claiming that the Irish had it just as bad in America as people in chattel slavery in the South because they were both technically “enslaved”.
you desperately want Western slavery to somehow be worse than Eastern slavery.
Because it’s not even close… The chattel slavery that occurred in the Americas is widely regarded by historians as some of the worst forms of slavery in recorded history. By what ever criteria you are ranking it, whether it be by volume, lack of rights, deaths, or in human suffering.
This is not a controversial or even drastic claim. The technology and social hierarchy that allowed them to transport and organize that many people into chattel slavery was even possible prior to the transatlantic slave trade.
feel like you just ignored any examples that do meet your criteria
I’ve responded with a clear explanation to all of your ridiculously racist claims this whole time. Even providing sources that explain exactly how you came up with your assumptions. You on the other hand have ignored every question and have failed to explain how your claims are pertinent to the conversation.
Honestly just sounds like exceptionalism to me. Again, sounds like you are a racist.
Ahh yes, a rebuttal that disproves a highly inaccurate claim… Exceptionalism.
Again, how do I seem racist? I already said east asians can be racist, I’ve already said they’ve had slaves. The only thing I am denying is your inaccurate use of the word racism under specific context, and denying your clearly inaccurate claims African slave trade happening in East Asia during a specific dynasty.
You on the other hand have made generalized claims about race this whole time, in an effort to conflate all slavery as being equally bad.
You don’t seem like a racist, based on your claims you are a racist. Go kick rocks.
So you think the idea of humans as personal property was a Western invention that specifically the East Asians didn’t engage in?
Slavery has occurred in nearly every society throughout human history, the abnormality which is unique to chattel slavery is the legal system that evolved to protect the owners right in totality. Even in ancient examples that most closely resemble the chattel slavery practiced in the Americas, there were still social contracts that prevented the enslaved from the levels of dire abuse African slaves experienced in the Americas.
Are you arguing that Asian slavery is better because slaves occasionally had rights?
Are you claiming that all slavery is equally bad? That being an indentured servant is the same as chattel slavery? Seems like a pretty convenient attitude for someone who is trying to distance themselves from the largest example of chattel slavery in recorded history.
think the slaves of the Khmer might disagree with you most recently.
Lol, once again equating two totally separate societies and cultures as the same because racist from hundreds of years ago labeled anyone east of turkey as Asian. Cambodia is in South East Asia…
It’s crazy how you don’t see that trying to justify your position with race science is in fact racist. What exactly do you believe validates your examples of Arab slave trade and the Khmer being pertinent to a conversation about East Asia?
well known the Tang dynasty in China kept Western slaves.
Lol, no it really isn’t. You are utilizing your preconceptions about skin color and projecting it to a misinterpretation of a mystical story from the 9th century.
When someone from the tang dynasty is speaking about “westerns” they aren’t talking about Europeans, the Arab world, or Africa. They are usually referring to places immediately west of China or West China. In the case of the Kunlun, they are more than likely talking about modern day Malaysia and Cambodia.
Here is a good breakdown of the Kunlun in China, with sources.
Again, you are applying your preconceptions of racial science to a people that predated it, and have a vastly different understanding of things like skin color. The Kunlun weren’t all slaves, and the type of slavery that did happen was no where close to chattel slavery.
This is a great example of racism in action. You are generalizing an entire continent, the one with a majority of the world’s population, and conflating them to be the same peoples based on criteria that was developed by racial science. The reason this debate has gotten so misconstrued is because the system you utilize to categorize ethnic groups isn’t based on any legitimate or logical basis.
Racism is prejudice applied through the lens of racial science. There’s a similar prejudice that occurs in ethnic prejudice, that can lead to similarly devastating results as racism, but usually on a much smaller scale.
Racial prejudice isn’t based on any real criteria that can be consistently measured or predicted. Which can lead to people classifying an entire Continent of people as the same and lesser than. Instead of a conflict between two rival ethnic groups, it can lead to things like the Scramble for Africa.
I don’t know how you can’t see that as being relevant, and I honestly don’t know why you have a problem with me utilizing a more correct terminology. Utilizing ethnic prejudice is correct when race isnt a factor. Is this the first time you’ve heard of the terminology, or do you think it’s never appropriate? Why do you think both terms are used in academia if you don’t think there’s a delineation between the two?
(a period lasting from the 16th to the 19th century you silly man)
The time I used was for chattel slavery, not for the transatlantic slave trade.
African slave trade has been active through the Arab Muslim world since antiquity
And you think the Arab Muslim world is relevant to a conversation about East Asia because your race science categorizes them all as Asians? Despite that most European countries have more culturally shared history than any East Asian country…
Where do you think the Chinese were getting these magical Kunlun slaves.
Lol, that’s from a mythical tale from the fucking tang dynasty… . If there actually were real Kunlun slaves, most historians agree that they were most likely from South East Asia.
the definition of chattel slavery isn’t the transatlantic slave trade, it’s using humans as a commodity, which again is and was worldwide.
Never claimed it was? Chattel slavery isn’t just that they were treated as commodities, it that they were treated as personal property. Even in places where slaves were historically traded as a commodity they usually still had some rights. Whether that be you couldn’t break apart their family, enslave their children, or even enslave them in perpetuity.
Chattel slavery requires a system of laws protecting the rights of the owner, ensuring that he could treat slaves any way they see fit.
Asians engaged in the chattel slavery you mention in the 18th century, they also engaged in just plain old slavery.
First of all, the 18th century would be the 1700s not the 1800s as I originally stated. Secondly, the slavery that was akin to chattel slavery was introduced to India by the British when they invaded in the latter half of the 18th century.
Lastly, it’s kinda hilarious the only way you could state “Asians engaged in chattel slavery” is by utilizing terminology originating from racial science. We were talking about east Asia, not the Indian subcontinent.
Chattel slavery was not a Western only concept, you may ask yourselves why the Asian continent is not filled with the children of black slaves.
I mean that’s incorrect in so many ways… Chattel slavery was a Western concept, and African slaves never made their way to anywhere close to East Asia.
That’s because slaves that were imported to Asia were generally castrated. Used them up, let them die, get new ones, no breeding programs.
Lol, source?
Whenever someone spends this much time trying to convince me that their feelings about other ethnic groups are not racist, because racism was invented by the West, I figure they are just trying to desperately hide their racism.
Lol, whatever you have to tell yourself to make believe Europe didn’t create one of the largest crimes against humanity ever with the transatlantic slave trade.
Do you not think Asians engaged in chattle slavery?
Well, there’s the whole problem with specifying race again. What do you mean when you say Asian? Are we talking about east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or even south east Asia?
There was something akin to chattel slavery in India in the 1800s, but nothing as widespread or cruel as chattel slavery in the Americas. As far as east Asia, no there’s not a documented history of chattel slavery.
Chattel slavery is a very specific type of slavery that wasn’t prevalent until the 18th century.
Prejudice isn’t separate from racism, it fits in like a puzzle piece
Lol, I didn’t say it was separate. All racist are prejudice, but not all prejudice is based on racism.
you just don’t like the word.
The word is fine, it’s your understanding of the word that is flawed.
Bro I think you might be racist.
Lol, against whom?
I think you might be trying to enact a revisionist view of history that lessens the actual meaning of racism. I think you are trying to equate all ethnic conflict to the systemic chattel slavery that race science enabled in the first place, making it seem less harmful than what it was.
you have a super secret definition of racism that doesn’t include people of similar ethnic groups not liking eachother because of past circumstances. Right?
Nope, just the scientifically correct version. Redefining the colloquial understanding of racism to exclude the history of racial discrimination and it’s foundation in slavery is immoral and incorrect.
It equivocates ethnic conflict such as your example of Japanese and Koreans as the same as the European racial science theory that vindicated chattle slavery based on skin tone.
A Korean or Chinese person who dislikes a Japanese person partially because of a cultural memory of occupation is still a racist.
So any conflict between two ethnic groups is automatically the same as the European slave trade…? That totally makes sense
You are conflating ethnic conflict, which can happen for a multitude of reasons with racism, which is a prejudice specific to race.
you don’t want to define yourself as racist so you created a new category that doesn’t include you.
Lol, or…you are actively preserving racial science and projecting your cultures dark history unto people whom never partook in chattel slavery because not something as idiotic as melanin content.
There are specific terminologies for everything we talked about, you just refuse to part ways with race science because it’s so inherent to your upbringing.
If you have a cultural dislike of a neighboring country, or different ethnic group, that’s still racism.
The word you’re looking for is called prejudice. Prejudice is part of racism, but so is the belief in race itself. Ethnic prejudice can be just as violent, or as damaging to social cohesion, but it’s inherently different than racism.
Again referring to westerners as a block without nuance
Lol, first I was being pedantic and now I’m not being nuanced? Under the context of racial science, labeling it as a western ideology is correct and fairly specific. What exactly is it lacking in nuance?
Ethnicity is too, more by definition.
Ethnicity has a set definition in the social sciences. Simply calling something a social construct does not equate it to flawed social constructs like race. Unless you are claiming that things like language and culture are just as meaningless as someone’s skin color, then there are inherent differences between ethnicity and race.
China also has xenophobia and racism. Ask Tibet.
Xenophobia yes, racism no. If race has no pertinence to racism, why utilize the terminology? Why preserve the ideology of a long debunked science?
What race are the Chinese and Tibetan?
Ask Taiwan or hong Kong nationals. That’s not news to anyone.
Lol, you are getting even more wrong the more you type. People from HK and Taiwan are the same race, and ethnicity. You are now equating nationality to race…
I can tell you totally understand what youre talking about…
Is it so hard for you to understand that racial science was never established as an inherent truth in most of the world? That it’s only the west who utilize the word Asian to describe the majority of the world’s population.
Ethnic and religious conflict, and nationalism lead different groups into the same type of ethnic prejudices, but that is inherently different from racism within the study of social sciences.
I’m not sure what that has to do with my rebuttal? I was confronting the claim that is now deleted, that China has never had a problem with racism.
I’m not claiming people aren’t being racist or xenophobic about this game. I was just explaining the difference between the western concept of racism and the history of ethnic conflict in east Asia.
the Wikipedia definition wrong then? You should have it edited.
Lol, depending on context yeah. If you read further into the article you’d find that it’s not a black and white subject.
“While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science”
Because westerners are so obsessed with race as an inherent truth, ethnicity and race have evolved to be similes in the English language. This is similar to how sex and gender are often used as similes, and that works in most cases, but it’s not appropriate in scientific context.
Your pedantry
It’s not pedantry when the argument is specifically about differentiating between racism and ethnic conflict.
My first statement was a rebuttal to someone claiming that racism hasn’t ever been a problem in China.
As does our scientific understanding of what constitutes race and ethnicity and its all more social construct than anything well defined.
Race is entirely a social construct, equating it to ethnicity is just wildly inaccurate and does nothing but validate the theory of racial science.
Ok but seems like a distinction without a difference.
I mean the distinction is fairly self evident. I as an Asian person cannot hold racial prejudices against other Asians, but can have ethnic prejudices.
Neither racism, nor ethnic racism,
Man, you guys just don’t understand that race is not an actual idea people outside the west utilize. Race is exclusively a western concept used to generalize people outside of Europe.
have anything to do with video games
I didn’t say they were? I was responding to a claim that someone else made and then deleted.
There’s a pretty clear delineation from racism and ethnic prejudice. One is a classification system used to loosely categorize people by general region and skin tone. The other is actually based on ethnic groups, and tends to actually be based on historical context.
Defined under the social construct of racism, a Han Chinese person and a Manchurian are the same “race”, they’re just Asian or “yellow”.
Ethnic prejudice is often just as bad as racism, but is generally based on actual historical context instead of a defunct “science”, that was only created to justify slavery.
Enjoy your champagne racism.
Lol, you do realize that you are the one demanding the globe to view ethnic conflict through the lens of race "science "?
Racism isn’t exactly the right word, but China and the rest of east asia have thousands of years of historical ethnic prejudices. It’s just not interpreted as “racism” because it’s more complicated than the color of your skin, and that’s typically what westerners can wrap their heads around at any given point.
question whether VR is generally a good idea based on how our brains learn and do things.
I think the main problem with VR in general is the same problem we see mirrored in the rest of the tech world. Most people in silicon valley fundamentally do not understand the way the central nervous system works.
Because of sci-fi and other media, people tend to perceive the brain and the body as two different things. That the body is just the vehicle of the brain, and that we will someday be able to rid ourselves of these mortal vehicles.
In reality there are no clear delineations that separate the central nervous system from the rest of body in this manor. The more we learn about the brain, the more we discover that it doesn’t function like the command center we like to describe it as. That a lot of reactive motions aren’t signaled by the brain, but from the spinal cord.
Because of this relation between body and mind, screens will never be as effective as buttons. Things like NueroLinks will never be able to provide the ease of use as a mouse. And VR will never be a pleasurable experience for the vast majority of the population. We simply aren’t suited for an environment where our only stimuli is just the visual and audible spectrum.
My theory has always been that the better you try and make VR, the more it’s going to negatively affect the general population.
The same thing happens when you try to make life like prosthetics. If you make a prosthetic that’s too visually similar to the original, your brain actually tries to communicate with it, and when it doesn’t get anything back, it can cause symptoms of dysmorphia.
I think similar things are happening with VR, that the more sound and visuals are able to trick your brain, the more it will conflict with proprioceptors telling you that you’re actually just sitting in your room.
The distribution is a distribution of game licenses with associated terms, and those terms don’t dictate a limit to the consumer on the number of installations on hardware they own for private/non-commercial purposes.
Right, but it’s not unity who is selling the game license. Nor are they limiting the end consumers ability to download the game as many times as they wish. They are just charging the dev for the use of server space and traffic.
argument against the terms of the licenses, not the terms of their arrangements with devs.
The arrangement with the devs is literally the only thing they have control over… it’s a service based company. Services are allowed to change their terms whenever they want, you don’t own access to their services, you pay to access them. If they change their terms of services and you don’t agree, you stop paying for the continuation of service.
TOS agreements are for the benefit of the company, not the benefit of the consumer. You can sue or arbitrate over the TOS, but it’s primarily only successful in cases involving negligence that harms the client e.g a leak of sensitive data that makes someone loose an important client.
Lost revenue obviously isn’t the reason for it, anyway. It’s almost certainly due to technical limitations of their data collection method resulting in them not being able to associate unique installations with their associated license. So the reason devs must accept a degree of inaccuracy that inherently favours Unity is that it would be illegal for Unity to be accurate.
I think that’s quite an assumption… servers cost money, sending a large amount of traffic through them cost money, it’s pretty standard for service companies to increase fees with increased server usage.
If I were a guessing guy, I would imagine that being able to track unique downloads would be kinda important for a gaming dev service.
It’s not really an intricacy of IP law though,
It is in the fact that the game was built on their platform using their IP. They may own the game they created, but they don’t own the right to distribution, that’s a service.
legally charge the dev, an invoice has to be raised. That’s a legal document, there’s an item on it, a quantity, and a price.
That’s if you are doing product business, the service industry has more flexibility in their terms of service and how much they can charge for it. The option is typically to discontinue the service or to pay for continued service.
The way it’s different to reddit is that Unity wants to charge per installation on unique hardware. That is, if you buy a license for the game, and install it on your PC as well as your Steam deck, then the devs need to pay 2x install fees.
Right, and as a service they will claim that additional downloads are an responsible for the loss of additional revenue, one they wish to offset to the customer who created it.
I’m not saying that this is a good thing, just explaining that the service industry has a lot leverage in court.
Without providing any basis for their charges, and without a way for devs to independently validate them, I can’t see how the charges could even be considered valid legally
Ehhh, it very well might not be. But service providers have an awful lot of control of their platforms and who and how they allow access to it, and for how much. A lot of the interpretations in IP courts when it comes to the digital service seem to be about 5 years behind the actual industry. Add on the fact that a lot of the people running the IP courts barely know how to operate a computer, let alone the ins and outs of digital media and we usually get an environment that’s skewed towards the industry.
A dev fee per fingerprinted installation doesn’t have any precedent in the SaaS space to my knowledge.
I think it would be interpreted pretty close to what reddit did with their API access. Technically it’s just a different type of service fee, and it’s backed by a pretty simple logic of offsetting the cost of the involved traffic.
I don’t think it would be illegal for an IPO to do this if it was truly meant to increase longterm profitability - e.g. price speculation that’s happened today could similarly happen for any reason at any time on any stock.
The main sticking point would be that you would have to prove that there is a logical path to long-term profitability that surpasses or offsets the resulting devaluation of pursuing a completely different profit model.
I think it really depends on how big the devaluation will be at the end of everything, and if they loose large clients specify their reasons for leaving.
It’s all pretty complicated, but Im still guessing theyre having solvency issues, just by looking at their IPO price since the last quarter of 2021 they’ve lost about 50% of their value without any real signs of recovery.
Why can’t they remain solvent by adjusting their fee schedule though?
Likely they’ve been remaining solvent through private equity, which has probably dried up. Their fees were probably just enough to entice further investment, but most of these companies operate on paying loans with new loans until they can become profitable in the long term.
Usually when a price hike that doesn’t make sense happens, it’s because they’ve failed to get a new injection of capital to remain in solvency. So they have to speed up the fee schedule to make their payments to the investors.
Corporate profit-seeking is the primary driver of the inflation in the global economy - I think the above commenter has put the cart before the horse.
It’s a public IPO, they don’t have to be profitable, they just have to appear as if they will be profitable to increase share price. This kind of hike is not something that a public IPO would do as it will assuredly drop stock price, which is illegal unless there is no alternative.
A lot of the wealth created by venture capital and the service economy were only ever possible with the help of what is essentially free money. With the increase in interest rates and the collapse of a major venture capital bank, those corporations dependent on low interest payments are going to collapse as well.
As interest rates climb and venture capital dries up, the companies who were just scraping by, or dependent on debt loading during development have had their runway cut short.
We are getting to the point where companies aren’t going to be utilize fronting a huge amount of debt as a strategy for long term growth.
Unity looks to be one of the companies who wanted to utilize the slow boil tactic perfected by the likes of Google or Amazon. Where they front the cost of tons of free and convenient services, hoping that companies become dependent on them, slowly creating fees over time until they become profitable.
If I were a guessing guy, they’ve hit the end of their run way, and have failed to secure a new injection of capital sufficient enough to make the payments on their loans. Likely their options have come to find a way to make your payments, or you’ll be giving your entire operation to a bank.
Lol, have you been to East Asia? Getting told to fuck off isn’t exactly a hard thing to provoke in Asia, it’s not something that only happens in America.
Almost as common as white people explaining Asian culture to Asians on this social media platform. I’ve been lectured to about my own culture by European and Americans who have never left their own countries.
My dude… Your ethnicity doesn’t change just because your parents migrated to another location. The fact that you can’t recognize stripping someone’s ethnicity away from someone because they weren’t born in there families homeland is just another form of forced assimilation, and is incredibly racist.
Again, utilizing an acronym to other delineate someone from their ethnic heritage is disgusting. Especially considering that I doubt you’ve ever had to deal with navigating the social stratification of being an immigrant.
Accosting a Chinese person for not being Chinese enough is just about the most 4d chess move of racism a white dude can pull off. Congrats.