They have been postponing it for a long time now. But uBlock origin has a light version they expect to work with V3. I wonder why they bother in the first place when they can just focus on Firefox
Well, Firefox also plans to deprecate MV2 at some point (deadline to be announced at the end of this year), the difference is just that their implementation of MV3 is more flexible at the points Chrome was criticized for.
Yes, it blocks ads, and likely the YouTube ones too. The current problem with YouTube is just their anti-adblocker which needs very frequent filter updates and unlike MV2, filter updates in MV3 need the update of the entire extension (think approval periods etc).
That was my understanding. People talk about this change like it’s going to disable adblock extensions completely which is clearly not the case. So far no one really explained what the actual impact will be. Do you know that? I see youtube ads might be harder to block. Anything else?
Oh fear not, limiting filter list updates to addon updates is a huge problem. For those users who rarely restart their browsers it’s even bigger of a problem: updating the addon (for the up to date filter lists) also means that all of the already loaded websites will lose the filters until you reload them, which is both not obvious to be needed and very painful, when you are using your browser for other things than consuming.
Also, does that also mean that custom filter lists are impossible anymore?
Besides these, also take into account that approval of addon updates can take a long time, quite often days, while the filters need to be updated more often (once or twice a day) for websites to not break for the majority of the users.
Yes, thinking about it, I still confidently think that chrome’s changes are unacceptable and are dealbreakers, and google is very clearly trying to curb content blockers with whatever tools available. Fortunately I don’t have to use that garbage anywhere.
Although if updating the adblocker’s list is not instant, as with wm2, it is basically a losing race with Google, since they can change the ad domains even before the adblocker update is applied.
Not really. In some cases it is able to, but as I said, ublock cannot load it’s filters, and so it can filter out much less things. Don’t forget that ublock does not only block ads, but disruptive popups and obsessive data mining too. With this change of chrome, it is simply unable to do that reliably.
People all this stress can be avoided if more channels upload videos on peertube. U block origin wouldnt even be needed as generally no ads are on peertube.
Peertube doesn’t give ad revenue sharing, so most content creators can’t afford to make content for a platform with no return. If someone was uploading a video for their friends, or a school project, then sure, open platforms are perfect.
Vast majority of creators make pennies from youtube ads. They make their money from patreon and sponsorship, neither of which are incompatible with peertube.
The biggest problem vis-a-vis youtube is that people won’t find you if you are not on it and blessed by the algorithm. Youtube is a monopoly because of metcalfe’s law.
They can’t afford? YouTube creators do it for attention and the possibility to become well known, not for the few dollars that YouTube shares with them. And also for the pleasure of helping others.
Literally any real job pays 100x what YouTube pays, so if money was the objective, these guys would not sit and make YouTube videos.
People were uploading, and still are. Uploading a video for my friends, or a school project which needs no return open platforms work perfectly. Irrelevant to my point.
Companies/Content Creators are on the platform because it pays them. If being on youtube did not pay them, they would go to a platform that did, eg twitch, tiktok.
That, my friends, is why we kept fighting for firefox. It doesn’t matter if you like or dislike Mozilla foundation, they have to exist because of shit like this
Firefox has the same problem with V3, it has nothing to do with the browser, adblocker V2 will stop working, because are the advertising companies wich will use V3 scripts. For Chrome and Chromium the only thing is, that are no more V2 adblocker in the Chrome Store and installed adblock extensions won’t work anymore. after June 24.
But don’t panic, the fact that adblocker V2 stops working does not exclude that there will be adblocker V3, the devs of these are not going to rest on their laurels either.
Firefox has the same problem with V3, it has nothing to do with the browser, adblocker V2 will stop working, because are the advertising companies wich will use V3 scripts.
What the hell are you talking about? This has nothing to do with what advertising companies do.
The main reason adblockers don’t like manifest V3 is that the webRequest API is gone. The proposed replacement, declarativeNetRequest, does not have the same functionality.
to my knowledge Firefox is keeping compatibility with most current extensions at least in terms of adblockers and privacy tools as they transition to manifest v3
Firefox has the same problem with V3, it has nothing to do with the browser
Didn’t they say they will implement V3, but change it slightly to allow extensions like ublock origin to block web requests? Also I’m pretty sure there’s still no timeline for any deprecation of V2 in FF, unlike for Chrome, which will disable all V2 extensions.
Also not a problem in Vivaldi, it has a own inbuild ad/trackerblocker, no need of the Chrome Store for this. Anyway until June 24 also the adblocker devs have updated their products for sure.
until June 24 also the adblocker devs have updated their products for sure.
If you understood the differences between manifest v2 and v3 you’d understand that it’s pretty much impossible to make an ad blocker with the same effectiveness in V3 as in V2.
When I read about that like a year ago gorhill had clearly stated that the mv3 version’s efficacy is severely kneecapped and while it works as well as it can it’s extremely bad in comparison to the present version on Firefox and Edge
Edge has been picking and choosing what features to carry over and off the top of my head announced they wouldn’t be merging in the most unpopular MV3 changes
They backed off their web drm, because it was hugely unpopular, but also because they remembered they own chromium and can just disable adblockers directly. They tried to over-engineer something that requires everyone else to adopt a new standard, when all they ever needed to do was use a sledgehammer.
I’ve never really understood the obsession with this. Yes, it’s true, but 1) they’ve never killed anything I actually cared about 2) they can’t support infinite software forever. 3) this discussion has nothing to do with anything here. They aren’t going to “kill” ads, it’s literally the one thing about their company that will never not be the focus.
That’s an important distinction. Whenever trillion dollar tech companies say they’re not going to do something hugely unpopular and selfish because of public sentiment, what they really mean is they’re not going to do it right then. Instead they back off, do something like this to get everyone’s attention focused elsewhere, and then they’ll push the original unpopular idea anyways, but quietly.
Does this apply to all Chromium based browsers? I would like to switch to Firefox, but the touchscreen scroll there is terrible, and that is 90% of what I do in a browser.
Vivaldi and Brave are planning to extend the deadline of MV2 by some extent, not sure if it means just like the enterprise policy or will they keep the implementation in code for longer.
Vivaldi is my daily driver. It has the best tab-management, dark website-mode (hidden function), build-in tracker, pop-up & ad-blocker, RSS-Reader, e-mail client, site-hibernation and much more. My hope is that the build-in protection will suffice when ublock origin will stop functioning. I can’t use any other browser anymore.
Vivaldi is my daily driver. It has the best tab-management, dark website-mode (hidden function), build-in tracker, pop-up & ad-blocker, RSS-Reader, e-mail client, site-hibernation and much more.
They both get their extensions from the Chrome Web Store. It’s going to be a lot like when Mozilla deprecated their old extensions and some forks continued support for them, great except very few people are going to continue to develop those extensions.
The deceleration is way too low and it’s hard to get it to focus where I want on the page fast. The deceleration is inconsistent between touchscreen and touchpad, which works fine. I tried looking around for configurations for it but couldn’t find any. Touchscreen support in Chrome is just generallybetter
Welp a very nuanced slight difference would obviously need to be avoided at the expense of literally ruining every web page with a shit ton of ads. That’s just a fact!
This is not a slight nuance, it literally makes touchscreen unusable for me. Touchscreen really helps with carpal tunnel and RSI, which is more important to me than an ideological war against Google.
I don’t know if it’s stated definitively anywhere, but I’m pretty sure the plan is to roll out that different version to Chrome users as an update to the existing extension. It’s going to be slightly worse because MV3 is still missing some API features.
The V3 version of ublock should really use a different name to make it clear it doesn’t have the same capabilities as in V2/Firefox. Maybe something like UBlock use-firefox-instead.
Since Chrome does not “disable uBlock Origin” but Google deprecating manifest V2 in favor of manifest V3 it will be done in Chromium because Chromium does the heavy lifting and Chrome is “just a Chromium based browser”.
Why boycott GrapheneOS? I feel a bit OOTL here, I only know the drama with the ex-lead dev, but I understand that the project as a whole is your best bet at a mobile experience that you control. Am I missing something?
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They have been postponing it for a long time now. But uBlock origin has a light version they expect to work with V3. I wonder why they bother in the first place when they can just focus on Firefox
Well, Firefox also plans to deprecate MV2 at some point (deadline to be announced at the end of this year), the difference is just that their implementation of MV3 is more flexible at the points Chrome was criticized for.
It just “kinda” works. It cannot nearly load all the network filters that it would normally use.
So does it block ads or not? Does it block youtube ads?
Yes, it blocks ads, and likely the YouTube ones too. The current problem with YouTube is just their anti-adblocker which needs very frequent filter updates and unlike MV2, filter updates in MV3 need the update of the entire extension (think approval periods etc).
That was my understanding. People talk about this change like it’s going to disable adblock extensions completely which is clearly not the case. So far no one really explained what the actual impact will be. Do you know that? I see youtube ads might be harder to block. Anything else?
Oh fear not, limiting filter list updates to addon updates is a huge problem. For those users who rarely restart their browsers it’s even bigger of a problem: updating the addon (for the up to date filter lists) also means that all of the already loaded websites will lose the filters until you reload them, which is both not obvious to be needed and very painful, when you are using your browser for other things than consuming.
Also, does that also mean that custom filter lists are impossible anymore?
Besides these, also take into account that approval of addon updates can take a long time, quite often days, while the filters need to be updated more often (once or twice a day) for websites to not break for the majority of the users.
Yes, thinking about it, I still confidently think that chrome’s changes are unacceptable and are dealbreakers, and google is very clearly trying to curb content blockers with whatever tools available. Fortunately I don’t have to use that garbage anywhere.
Yeah, I would like to know that as well.
Although if updating the adblocker’s list is not instant, as with wm2, it is basically a losing race with Google, since they can change the ad domains even before the adblocker update is applied.
Or worse, since the adblocker no longer has direct access, they can just set chrome to ignore it’s requests/changes when it benefits them.
Not really. In some cases it is able to, but as I said, ublock cannot load it’s filters, and so it can filter out much less things. Don’t forget that ublock does not only block ads, but disruptive popups and obsessive data mining too. With this change of chrome, it is simply unable to do that reliably.
People all this stress can be avoided if more channels upload videos on peertube. U block origin wouldnt even be needed as generally no ads are on peertube.
Peertube doesn’t give ad revenue sharing, so most content creators can’t afford to make content for a platform with no return. If someone was uploading a video for their friends, or a school project, then sure, open platforms are perfect.
Vast majority of creators make pennies from youtube ads. They make their money from patreon and sponsorship, neither of which are incompatible with peertube.
The biggest problem vis-a-vis youtube is that people won’t find you if you are not on it and blessed by the algorithm. Youtube is a monopoly because of metcalfe’s law.
They can’t afford? YouTube creators do it for attention and the possibility to become well known, not for the few dollars that YouTube shares with them. And also for the pleasure of helping others.
Literally any real job pays 100x what YouTube pays, so if money was the objective, these guys would not sit and make YouTube videos.
Seemed like people were uploading before youtube started paying people, so I dont buy that %100
Maybe I could meet you in the middle there because I can see that happening.
People were uploading, and still are. Uploading a video for my friends, or a school project which needs no return open platforms work perfectly. Irrelevant to my point.
Companies/Content Creators are on the platform because it pays them. If being on youtube did not pay them, they would go to a platform that did, eg twitch, tiktok.
Goddamnit I missed out again, faaaackkk! Why do i keep using Firefox ? Why?
Because you don’t randomly insist that your tab UI is some extremely fucking specific way that is somehow required to use the Internet! The nerve!
That, my friends, is why we kept fighting for firefox. It doesn’t matter if you like or dislike Mozilla foundation, they have to exist because of shit like this
Firefox has the same problem with V3, it has nothing to do with the browser, adblocker V2 will stop working, because are the advertising companies wich will use V3 scripts. For Chrome and Chromium the only thing is, that are no more V2 adblocker in the Chrome Store and installed adblock extensions won’t work anymore. after June 24. But don’t panic, the fact that adblocker V2 stops working does not exclude that there will be adblocker V3, the devs of these are not going to rest on their laurels either.
What the hell are you talking about? This has nothing to do with what advertising companies do.
The main reason adblockers don’t like manifest V3 is that the webRequest API is gone. The proposed replacement, declarativeNetRequest, does not have the same functionality.
to my knowledge Firefox is keeping compatibility with most current extensions at least in terms of adblockers and privacy tools as they transition to manifest v3
Didn’t they say they will implement V3, but change it slightly to allow extensions like ublock origin to block web requests? Also I’m pretty sure there’s still no timeline for any deprecation of V2 in FF, unlike for Chrome, which will disable all V2 extensions.
Also not a problem in Vivaldi, it has a own inbuild ad/trackerblocker, no need of the Chrome Store for this. Anyway until June 24 also the adblocker devs have updated their products for sure.
If you understood the differences between manifest v2 and v3 you’d understand that it’s pretty much impossible to make an ad blocker with the same effectiveness in V3 as in V2.
So they will exist, just be worse.
No https://blog.shahednasser.com/chrome-extension-tutorial-migrating-to-manifest-v3-from-v2/ How long do you think it will take the devs to change the adblockers to v3? 3…2…1…
That doesn’t even mention the changes to webrequest. Here’s an intro: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/migrating/blocking-web-requests/
Only hard and adrich times for Chrome users and some work of the devs from adblockers and other browsers.
yet we already have a working implementation of ublock origin for mv3 by it’s main developer, gorhill
When I read about that like a year ago gorhill had clearly stated that the mv3 version’s efficacy is severely kneecapped and while it works as well as it can it’s extremely bad in comparison to the present version on Firefox and Edge
How is edge working better than chrome? It’s basically just a reskinned chrome.
Edge has been picking and choosing what features to carry over and off the top of my head announced they wouldn’t be merging in the most unpopular MV3 changes
I could have sworn I saw something saying Google caved on this due to pressure.
They played possum while stuffing MV3 with as many internet killers as they could get away with
They backed off their web drm, because it was hugely unpopular, but also because they remembered they own chromium and can just disable adblockers directly. They tried to over-engineer something that requires everyone else to adopt a new standard, when all they ever needed to do was use a sledgehammer.
It was something else. Web drm : Web Integrity API.
Tho I don’t think they canceled the mobile variant of it for apps.
They pushed it back. They’ve done so several times with Manifest V3.
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Thankfully Google is really good at killing things.
I’ve never really understood the obsession with this. Yes, it’s true, but 1) they’ve never killed anything I actually cared about 2) they can’t support infinite software forever. 3) this discussion has nothing to do with anything here. They aren’t going to “kill” ads, it’s literally the one thing about their company that will never not be the focus.
They don’t allow any new MV2 extensions in the store, though.
That’s an important distinction. Whenever trillion dollar tech companies say they’re not going to do something hugely unpopular and selfish because of public sentiment, what they really mean is they’re not going to do it right then. Instead they back off, do something like this to get everyone’s attention focused elsewhere, and then they’ll push the original unpopular idea anyways, but quietly.
They did update the Declarative Net Request API to be more useful apparently.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/16/23964509/google-manifest-v3-rollout-ad-blockers
Does this apply to all Chromium based browsers? I would like to switch to Firefox, but the touchscreen scroll there is terrible, and that is 90% of what I do in a browser.
Vivaldi and Brave are planning to extend the deadline of MV2 by some extent, not sure if it means just like the enterprise policy or will they keep the implementation in code for longer.
Vivaldi is my daily driver. It has the best tab-management, dark website-mode (hidden function), build-in tracker, pop-up & ad-blocker, RSS-Reader, e-mail client, site-hibernation and much more. My hope is that the build-in protection will suffice when ublock origin will stop functioning. I can’t use any other browser anymore.
You forgot excessive RAM usage 🤮
Checked with htop:
Firefox - no tabs open, no extensions: 365MB
Chromium - no tabs open, no extensions: 358MB
qutebrowser - 1 tab open, no extensions: 400MB
Vivaldi - 3 tabs open and 70 tabs sleeping in 5 workspaces, built in ad- and track-blocker enabled + 2 extensions: 450MB
I can spare that 50MB from my more than enough mem for all the extra quality of life functions no other browser offers.
They both get their extensions from the Chrome Web Store. It’s going to be a lot like when Mozilla deprecated their old extensions and some forks continued support for them, great except very few people are going to continue to develop those extensions.
yes it does.
what trouble are you having with FF’s scroll? it’s worked perfectly fine on every device I’ve ever seen, you sure it’s not a problem with your setup?
The deceleration is way too low and it’s hard to get it to focus where I want on the page fast. The deceleration is inconsistent between touchscreen and touchpad, which works fine. I tried looking around for configurations for it but couldn’t find any. Touchscreen support in Chrome is just generally better
Welp a very nuanced slight difference would obviously need to be avoided at the expense of literally ruining every web page with a shit ton of ads. That’s just a fact!
This is not a slight nuance, it literally makes touchscreen unusable for me. Touchscreen really helps with carpal tunnel and RSI, which is more important to me than an ideological war against Google.
You will have to experience a fuck ton of ads that literally make your experience less smooth. The very thing you were talking about.
But yeah go ahead and imply all I care about here is sticking it to Google.
This article is really wrong, wow. There is already a Manifest V3-compliant version of uBlock Origin, it’s discussed in this thread: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338
I don’t know if it’s stated definitively anywhere, but I’m pretty sure the plan is to roll out that different version to Chrome users as an update to the existing extension. It’s going to be slightly worse because MV3 is still missing some API features.
that version works but it’s always been a lite version compared to the standard ublock origin with far less capabilities and features.
Right, my point was just that the article is wrong/clickbait. The changes won’t “disable uBlock Origin” or “essentially kill off uBlock Origin”.
The V3 version of ublock should really use a different name to make it clear it doesn’t have the same capabilities as in V2/Firefox. Maybe something like UBlock use-firefox-instead.
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I suppose this will affect chromium too?
Since Chrome does not “disable uBlock Origin” but Google deprecating manifest V2 in favor of manifest V3 it will be done in Chromium because Chromium does the heavy lifting and Chrome is “just a Chromium based browser”.
Well what did you expect from an advertising company with a side hustle in web search.
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idk what people say but webextensions were a mistake.
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Why boycott GrapheneOS? I feel a bit OOTL here, I only know the drama with the ex-lead dev, but I understand that the project as a whole is your best bet at a mobile experience that you control. Am I missing something?
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Early Christmas present for FireFox, yay!
Google keeps improving chrome /s
I’ve disabled chrome on all my devices some time ago, so this is fine.