bethesda taught us a very important lesson a while ago - if your game isn’t good, then the modders won’t bother. Skyrim despite its flaws is a good game, and has mods to show for it, Starfield despite its budget is pretty bad, and after the initial hype most ambitious mod projects were cancelled.
because of that i don’t think there’s any neferious plot behind the game makers celebrating their modding community, and the modding community certainly isn’t getting forced to work without pay - they’re passionate about the game and want to make something of their own within it, and honestly that builds a good portfolio for future use too
Defending amateurism in amateur fields is reasonable. Especially when amateurism is a legal defense of the practice such as modding. Professional mods without official license are copyright violations.
This is similar to fanfic communities. The amateurism of the field gives it part of its charm and community, and it also makes it easier for people to come in, develop these skills, and move into creating and selling original works if they’d like to move in that direction.
Copyleft “fanfics” are what we call the entire SCP universe. CC-BY-SA is just like the GPL. Notice it’s not CC-BY-SA-NC (NonCommercial). Labor, even if it’s “mods” or “fanfics” is still labor. What, suddenly your work grew in value because it was based off of a different license agreement? The hard work didn’t change, yet it suddenly legitimately grew in value?
If i ever made a game, im making sure everything is released cc by sa and a FLOSS software license for the source code. Because fuck the mentality that says your work isn’t valuable simply because I didn’t give you a license to “my stuff”
Labor is labor, and copyleft is great. Hell copyright has massive issues. But also if youre going to participate in amateur labor where it would be illegal to profit, something wonderful and fulfilling for many people, then you don’t get mad when you don’t get paid. If you decide you’d like to make it something you get compensated for you can file the serial numbers off as has become a common practice for fanfic writers who achieve a certain level of popularity.
But also, the exchange of money changes the nature of labor. Labor done out of love and a desire to create and act and give to one’s community is deeply human and quite satisfying and it’s why amateur communities develop culture of amateurism. And it’s why many people who don’t want to do these things for a living choose to do them for a hobby
I don’t either. But if they’re joining an intramural league, I oppose it. Because its a league defined by amateurism in which nobody’s really seeking to profit.
When we talk NCAA or Olympics then I think that as people are starting to profit off of it the athletes should profit. Though I ask why we’re endorsing the everyone profit model rather than the “college sports teams should more resemble high school ones and we create a minor league instead” model.
Lets go to a form of labor I’ve done: open mic nights. Comedians should be able to make money off their craft, but open mic nights shouldn’t pay because that creates conditions that ruin the point. It’s a space where anyone can go up, try their hand, and with minimal judgment perform. You being good is a nice surprise to the audience, unlike when you’re being paid where they have reason to expect it. It’s a different environment, one more focused on the human desire to create and perform and share it and on the development of skills to a level that they can be sold.
That’s what amateurism is about. It’s about keeping it low key, keeping the expectations reasonable, and keeping the vibe of “people are selling their stuff here” out. It’s the same reason that as a former nudes poster who has dated nudes sellers I’ve wanted to keep those communities separated.
So yeah, it kills the vibes and for us supporters of amateurism we know we’re losing out on highly skilled people’s contributions to our communities when we say we’d rather them not engage in commercial works in those realms. Thats OK.
And I’d like to add that I do purchase art from former amateurs when they move into professional realms. Tamsyn Muir is my favorite author and her writing drips of her fanfic history. But her fanfic is for her and under a name idk if shes even released, and I wouldn’t buy it if she were to sell it wholecloth, because that kills the vibes.
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Does anyone get paid anything? Or potentially just the game makers capitalising on the success of the mod?
bethesda taught us a very important lesson a while ago - if your game isn’t good, then the modders won’t bother. Skyrim despite its flaws is a good game, and has mods to show for it, Starfield despite its budget is pretty bad, and after the initial hype most ambitious mod projects were cancelled.
because of that i don’t think there’s any neferious plot behind the game makers celebrating their modding community, and the modding community certainly isn’t getting forced to work without pay - they’re passionate about the game and want to make something of their own within it, and honestly that builds a good portfolio for future use too
People get mad when payment is expected for labor
Defending amateurism in amateur fields is reasonable. Especially when amateurism is a legal defense of the practice such as modding. Professional mods without official license are copyright violations.
This is similar to fanfic communities. The amateurism of the field gives it part of its charm and community, and it also makes it easier for people to come in, develop these skills, and move into creating and selling original works if they’d like to move in that direction.
Copyleft “fanfics” are what we call the entire SCP universe. CC-BY-SA is just like the GPL. Notice it’s not CC-BY-SA-NC (NonCommercial). Labor, even if it’s “mods” or “fanfics” is still labor. What, suddenly your work grew in value because it was based off of a different license agreement? The hard work didn’t change, yet it suddenly legitimately grew in value?
If i ever made a game, im making sure everything is released cc by sa and a FLOSS software license for the source code. Because fuck the mentality that says your work isn’t valuable simply because I didn’t give you a license to “my stuff”
Labor is labor, and copyleft is great. Hell copyright has massive issues. But also if youre going to participate in amateur labor where it would be illegal to profit, something wonderful and fulfilling for many people, then you don’t get mad when you don’t get paid. If you decide you’d like to make it something you get compensated for you can file the serial numbers off as has become a common practice for fanfic writers who achieve a certain level of popularity.
But also, the exchange of money changes the nature of labor. Labor done out of love and a desire to create and act and give to one’s community is deeply human and quite satisfying and it’s why amateur communities develop culture of amateurism. And it’s why many people who don’t want to do these things for a living choose to do them for a hobby
Selling a game based off of the hard work of a game engine: good
Selling a mod based off of the hard work of intellectual property: bad
Is that too reductive? It’s the same industry: game dev
Being paid to compete in professional sports vs being paid to compete in intramural sports. It’s the same industry is it not?
What’s wrong with accepting payment for playing a sport? I really don’t see a problem of somebody trying to earn a living by doing that
I don’t either. But if they’re joining an intramural league, I oppose it. Because its a league defined by amateurism in which nobody’s really seeking to profit.
When we talk NCAA or Olympics then I think that as people are starting to profit off of it the athletes should profit. Though I ask why we’re endorsing the everyone profit model rather than the “college sports teams should more resemble high school ones and we create a minor league instead” model.
Lets go to a form of labor I’ve done: open mic nights. Comedians should be able to make money off their craft, but open mic nights shouldn’t pay because that creates conditions that ruin the point. It’s a space where anyone can go up, try their hand, and with minimal judgment perform. You being good is a nice surprise to the audience, unlike when you’re being paid where they have reason to expect it. It’s a different environment, one more focused on the human desire to create and perform and share it and on the development of skills to a level that they can be sold.
That’s what amateurism is about. It’s about keeping it low key, keeping the expectations reasonable, and keeping the vibe of “people are selling their stuff here” out. It’s the same reason that as a former nudes poster who has dated nudes sellers I’ve wanted to keep those communities separated.
So yeah, it kills the vibes and for us supporters of amateurism we know we’re losing out on highly skilled people’s contributions to our communities when we say we’d rather them not engage in commercial works in those realms. Thats OK.
And I’d like to add that I do purchase art from former amateurs when they move into professional realms. Tamsyn Muir is my favorite author and her writing drips of her fanfic history. But her fanfic is for her and under a name idk if shes even released, and I wouldn’t buy it if she were to sell it wholecloth, because that kills the vibes.