I don’t want to seem dismissive, but I have had this argument 100s of times with an untold number of people over the years. If you ask any pro FPS player who has played at a top level on both they will all tell you that the two should never cross. At least not in any competitive/ranked situations.
It does not matter what you do. If there is anything altering the players inputs whatsoever those players need to be playing against only other people with those same assists and controls.
I was in a CAL-O team back in my CS days. Not saying this to brag (clearly, as CAL-O was definitely not top tier), just to credential my own opinion as I’m no stranger to competitive FPS play, myself.
It does not matter what you do. If there is anything altering the players inputs whatsoever those players need to be playing against only other people with those same assists and controls.
I don’t necessarily agree that the two are incompatible, even for comp/ranked play. Even if you segregate controller and M/K players, the players in the controller pool aren’t necessarily all playing with the same controller (third-party or Pro/Elite controllers are fairly common), and the players in the M/K pool are definitely not all playing with the same peripherals.
Some controller players will have extra buttons, paddles, or gyro aiming that other players won’t; and it’s probably rare to find two players in any M/K lobby using the same mouse. Even in a PC-only lobby, the player with the $400 RGB HyperTactical GX Mountain Dew & Knuckles mouse is going to have an intrinsic advantage over the player using the 2-button mouse that came with the Dell Optiplex he bought at a yard sale. So either way, neither matchmaking pool has players on a truly even playing field to begin with, and somebody’s choice in their input method is likely to give them some sort of advantage over others in their lobby.
If we want to game in a truly fair, competitive environment, then we should do it like sports leagues do and ensure all players are using standard-issued equipment so that the only variable is the individual skill of the players. But there’s a million reasons why that can’t happen though, so we have to accept some amount of compromise to fairness in order to make games playable.
Ultimately, if the concern is “aim assist is too strong on controller”, then I think that’s a quality control issue on the developers’ part, and something that can be remedied. I don’t think the right solution is “split the player base into sequestered factions”, even though it’s an easy solution. Because you also need to consider that the input method isn’t the only factor deciding any encounter between players. If it were, then you could give the top M/K players a controller and they’d skyrocket through the leaderboards. And vise-versa, the top controller players should start landing all their flick shots once they switch to M/K. But they don’t, because just like in traditional sports, familiarity with the equipment is just as important as one’s ability and game knowledge.
Another often-overlooked issue, which nobody wants to hear, is that there 100% exists an attitude among many M/K players of “he’s on controller, so there’s no way he can be better at the game than me”. A lot of times, the balance between controller and M/K is just fine, and players are just finding themselves on the uncomfortable end of the Dunning-Kruger curve. And I’m not saying this as some sort of Holy Paladin of Gamepads or anything; I actually prefer M/K. But quite often I see PC players dismiss the skill of console players, because they equate their skill to their platform selection. I’m not accusing you of this, by the way, just mentioning that this is an attitude I see a lot in competitive circles, but never see anybody actually talk about it.
I’m multitasking and dangerously decaffeinated as I write this, so I’m sorry if I’m rambling and not making any sense lol.
Like conceptually or in a competitive environment? I think gyro aiming sucks to use personally but for some people who cant use traditional user interfaces I understand it can be revolutionary.
I have no problems with it as it is still just an alternative way to translate the humans input into a direct action. It’s no different than a thumb stick in my eyes.
Yeah it’s the computer augmentation of player inputs that I have a problem with. Alternative input methods that are still 1 to 1 with the human player input don’t bother me. I don’t care if it’s gyro or tongue joystick or whatever else.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
News oriented content (general reviews, previews or retrospectives allowed).
Broad discussion posts (preferably not only about a specific game).
No humor/memes etc…
No affiliate links
No advertising.
No clickbait, editorialized, sensational titles. State the game in question in the title. No all caps.
No self promotion.
No duplicate posts, newer post will be deleted unless there is more discussion in one of the posts.
No politics.
Comments.
No personal attacks.
Obey instance rules.
No low effort comments(one or two words, emoji etc…)
Please use spoiler tags for spoilers.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
I don’t want to seem dismissive, but I have had this argument 100s of times with an untold number of people over the years. If you ask any pro FPS player who has played at a top level on both they will all tell you that the two should never cross. At least not in any competitive/ranked situations.
It does not matter what you do. If there is anything altering the players inputs whatsoever those players need to be playing against only other people with those same assists and controls.
I was in a CAL-O team back in my CS days. Not saying this to brag (clearly, as CAL-O was definitely not top tier), just to credential my own opinion as I’m no stranger to competitive FPS play, myself.
I don’t necessarily agree that the two are incompatible, even for comp/ranked play. Even if you segregate controller and M/K players, the players in the controller pool aren’t necessarily all playing with the same controller (third-party or Pro/Elite controllers are fairly common), and the players in the M/K pool are definitely not all playing with the same peripherals.
Some controller players will have extra buttons, paddles, or gyro aiming that other players won’t; and it’s probably rare to find two players in any M/K lobby using the same mouse. Even in a PC-only lobby, the player with the $400 RGB HyperTactical GX Mountain Dew & Knuckles mouse is going to have an intrinsic advantage over the player using the 2-button mouse that came with the Dell Optiplex he bought at a yard sale. So either way, neither matchmaking pool has players on a truly even playing field to begin with, and somebody’s choice in their input method is likely to give them some sort of advantage over others in their lobby.
If we want to game in a truly fair, competitive environment, then we should do it like sports leagues do and ensure all players are using standard-issued equipment so that the only variable is the individual skill of the players. But there’s a million reasons why that can’t happen though, so we have to accept some amount of compromise to fairness in order to make games playable.
Ultimately, if the concern is “aim assist is too strong on controller”, then I think that’s a quality control issue on the developers’ part, and something that can be remedied. I don’t think the right solution is “split the player base into sequestered factions”, even though it’s an easy solution. Because you also need to consider that the input method isn’t the only factor deciding any encounter between players. If it were, then you could give the top M/K players a controller and they’d skyrocket through the leaderboards. And vise-versa, the top controller players should start landing all their flick shots once they switch to M/K. But they don’t, because just like in traditional sports, familiarity with the equipment is just as important as one’s ability and game knowledge.
Another often-overlooked issue, which nobody wants to hear, is that there 100% exists an attitude among many M/K players of “he’s on controller, so there’s no way he can be better at the game than me”. A lot of times, the balance between controller and M/K is just fine, and players are just finding themselves on the uncomfortable end of the Dunning-Kruger curve. And I’m not saying this as some sort of Holy Paladin of Gamepads or anything; I actually prefer M/K. But quite often I see PC players dismiss the skill of console players, because they equate their skill to their platform selection. I’m not accusing you of this, by the way, just mentioning that this is an attitude I see a lot in competitive circles, but never see anybody actually talk about it.
I’m multitasking and dangerously decaffeinated as I write this, so I’m sorry if I’m rambling and not making any sense lol.
What do you think about gyro aiming?
Like conceptually or in a competitive environment? I think gyro aiming sucks to use personally but for some people who cant use traditional user interfaces I understand it can be revolutionary.
I have no problems with it as it is still just an alternative way to translate the humans input into a direct action. It’s no different than a thumb stick in my eyes.
Yeah, I meant in the context of competition. It’s not aim assist, but with practice it can be quite competitive vs the mouse.
I agree, it should be fair game for competitive play, unlike aim assist.
Yeah it’s the computer augmentation of player inputs that I have a problem with. Alternative input methods that are still 1 to 1 with the human player input don’t bother me. I don’t care if it’s gyro or tongue joystick or whatever else.