Look at Amazon and their Fire TV platform. It’s just android, with all of the Google stuff stripped out.
Sure, Google may not be getting any money for that, but they are getting more dev time and attention on the open source parts of Android which helps to solidify the base of the OS which helps them.
And Android got popular because it was open and manufacturers could build phones that support it without necessarily needing to involve Google (or at least without needing to certify it or meet strict standards) which let the platform grow significantly. If Google closed it up today it would likely cause a fork in the Android platform ecosystem and you’d end up with “Google Android” on pixel and “Open Android” on all others.
Not sure what they’re referring to, but there are a number of warnings when you install an APK and you have to enable a setting to allow you to install an APK. It’s not challenging or restrictive, but a user who is unfamiliar might be discouraged from installing an app this way after seeing the warnings.
it’s only open in words, the android phone you purchase from oems contains plenty of proprietary stuff, not only from the oem itself but from google and and even the chipmakers like Qualcomm as well and in some cases like play integrity, an open alternative doesn’t exist on top of that, oems don’t just receive the aosp from google for their devices but something called partner sources as well and i don’t know much about them except that they aren’t publicly available
edit;and yes as you might have expected a lot of hardware in your android phone is pretty unusuable without proprietary stuff though i think i am sidetracking from the main topic at discussion now…
it’s only open in words, the android phone you purchase from oems contains plenty of proprietary stuff
The core of Android is completely open-source. But yes a typical device has a ton of proprietary drivers layered on top of it, along with a bunch of proprietary Google apps and frameworks.
That’s still way better than nothing: sure the drivers you can’t do much about them, but you can still build a fully functional de-Google ROM if you want. I see it kind of like installing the NVIDIA drivers on Linux: not ideal, but it doesn’t affect my ability to modify the Linux kernel or any other part of the operating system.
It’s not like PCs aren’t loaded with proprietary firmware either. We may have open-source kernel drivers, they still upload proprietary firmware to the device for your WiFi and GPU to work. Very few PCs can be corebooted.
in some cases like play integrity, an open alternative doesn’t exist on top of that
That’s not completely true. The APIs for it are completely open to any app, but apps that check Play Integrity specifically are also doing so specifically to check for Google-approved ROMs. Apps from the Samsung Store can use Knox instead to do a similar thing.
If you want to use the TEE and make sure your app only runs on official GrapheneOS or LineageOS builds, you can. It’s just, nobody does that because why would anyone do that. But if you have an application that wants it, idk you somehow have corporate devices that should run your custom AOSP build and prevent rooting or flashing to run your custom proprietary app, you totally can.
I think making Android iOS would increase their profit.
I think the opposite. If this happens either people would jump to iPhone or third parties that allow sideloading. The privacy crowd would start a new Android branch or just make Linux phones more popular.
Because if they shared platforms, they’d have to share profits. IMO both companies would lose money. Plus the open competition between the 2 platforms also helps with sales and motivation to stick to your current SP which is a benefit for both companies
I side load. That’s why I stick to Android. If they get rid of that I need to find something else. Restricting what your users can do is actually a bad business process and the key thing keeping me away from Apple. If Apple were to actually open their systems and start respecting their users they would get more customers.
They have touted for a long time their false equivalency that restriction equals security. If they backtrack on that (I believe) they believe they will lose customers. In reality their fanbase will likely stick with them because that’s what they know and the added functionality will make their offerings a more appealing product.
Now that Europe is forcing their hand on some of this we can see the impacts it will have on their market growth in the coming years. There are other factors that impact this potential shift in market share too:
Is your current phone still working
Have you had a lot of problems with your current phone or phone manufacturer
Are you willing to ignore Apple’s past regresses in anticipation of actually being able to use their hardware as you wish
And (kind of in defense of Apple users, when I find Apple very frustrating to use and Apple fans can be annoying), Apple stuff “just works” if all you want to do are the essentials/what Apple thinks you need.
This is why my work phones are iPhones. I get none of the Android benefits on a locked-down, MDM-managed Android from work. It only syncs with company systems, I’ll never use it for personal stuff. So give me the dead-simple device.
But personally, oh fuck me iOS drives me nuts. Had to use an iPhone for a week recently while I reset my phone and installed DivestOS. What a painful, frustrating experience (and I use an iPad every day already).
Because 99.9% of population doesn’t know what sideloading is, let alone where to find apps and how to sideload them. So, realistically, there isn’t a need for it. Also, Google apps tend to be free with IAP, so no matter where the app comes from, it can still generate them revenue. On Apples side, their apps are mostly paid once upon purchase, so enabling sideloading would effectively cut revenue.
When Android started, I’m not even sure they wanted a centralized store to begin with. Android was going to replace flip phones and their super proprietary and hard to develop for operating systems. Being open-source was part of the appeal for manufacturers (they get to customize it but still be able to run most apps just fine). Being able to sideload apps was important then because the alternative was sending a premium SMS to some number and getting the app on your phone in return. It was a market where the carriers were controlling everything. Also, Android was originally designed to be a camera operating system and later on expanded to target about any portable devices, mainly phones but there were WiFi-only Android devices too.
Open platforms are very appealing to developers. One of the reason I’ll never own an iPhone is, I can’t even try out iOS development without buying a Mac and then buying an annual $200 license to Apple just to have the right to develop for the platform. Young teenage me was like, fuck that, I can just download Eclipse and develop for Android for completely free and even share my app for free!
Android was also very popular with the developers because you could easily build and flash your own builds of Android too, being open-source.
Now it’s too late to backtrack on that without major outrage and scrutiny by legislators. Same reason it’s way too late for Microsoft to attempt to stop sideloading and force everyone to the Microsoft Store.
In today’s world, I think it’s still valuable for Google to let people do all that. The Nexus line and now the Pixel line are the standard when it comes to unlocking your bootloader and flashing a custom ROM. Google encourages developers to do that because they get free beta testing for beta builds, but it also enables security researchers to study the operating system and discover flaws that Google can then fix. They’ve also taken several popular features from custom ROMs and implemented them directly in Android, so people basically design and test new features that Google can just take for free. Things we take for granted like quick settings in the notification tray, that originated in custom ROMs. They also poached a few developers, for example the guy that made Magisk now works at Google in the security department. And as others have pointed out, it shields Google from some legal challenges as they can just say “well if they don’t like the Play Store they can just sideload another one”.
Ultimately too few people even bother sideloading apps for them to really care or affect the Play Store revenue. 99.99% of people won’t ever download anything outside of the Play Store.
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Look at Amazon and their Fire TV platform. It’s just android, with all of the Google stuff stripped out.
Sure, Google may not be getting any money for that, but they are getting more dev time and attention on the open source parts of Android which helps to solidify the base of the OS which helps them.
And Android got popular because it was open and manufacturers could build phones that support it without necessarily needing to involve Google (or at least without needing to certify it or meet strict standards) which let the platform grow significantly. If Google closed it up today it would likely cause a fork in the Android platform ecosystem and you’d end up with “Google Android” on pixel and “Open Android” on all others.
They already implement features to make it harder to sideload
deleted by creator
Not sure what they’re referring to, but there are a number of warnings when you install an APK and you have to enable a setting to allow you to install an APK. It’s not challenging or restrictive, but a user who is unfamiliar might be discouraged from installing an app this way after seeing the warnings.
It’s one of their differentiating features.
Theyve always touted android as an open platform. Why would it benefit them to follow apples route?
Plus, apple are being slapped around in the EU at the moment for exactly this reason - having a closed app store
it’s only open in words, the android phone you purchase from oems contains plenty of proprietary stuff, not only from the oem itself but from google and and even the chipmakers like Qualcomm as well and in some cases like play integrity, an open alternative doesn’t exist on top of that, oems don’t just receive the aosp from google for their devices but something called partner sources as well and i don’t know much about them except that they aren’t publicly available
edit;and yes as you might have expected a lot of hardware in your android phone is pretty unusuable without proprietary stuff though i think i am sidetracking from the main topic at discussion now…
The core of Android is completely open-source. But yes a typical device has a ton of proprietary drivers layered on top of it, along with a bunch of proprietary Google apps and frameworks.
That’s still way better than nothing: sure the drivers you can’t do much about them, but you can still build a fully functional de-Google ROM if you want. I see it kind of like installing the NVIDIA drivers on Linux: not ideal, but it doesn’t affect my ability to modify the Linux kernel or any other part of the operating system.
It’s not like PCs aren’t loaded with proprietary firmware either. We may have open-source kernel drivers, they still upload proprietary firmware to the device for your WiFi and GPU to work. Very few PCs can be corebooted.
That’s not completely true. The APIs for it are completely open to any app, but apps that check Play Integrity specifically are also doing so specifically to check for Google-approved ROMs. Apps from the Samsung Store can use Knox instead to do a similar thing.
If you want to use the TEE and make sure your app only runs on official GrapheneOS or LineageOS builds, you can. It’s just, nobody does that because why would anyone do that. But if you have an application that wants it, idk you somehow have corporate devices that should run your custom AOSP build and prevent rooting or flashing to run your custom proprietary app, you totally can.
I think the opposite. If this happens either people would jump to iPhone or third parties that allow sideloading. The privacy crowd would start a new Android branch or just make Linux phones more popular.
Because if they shared platforms, they’d have to share profits. IMO both companies would lose money. Plus the open competition between the 2 platforms also helps with sales and motivation to stick to your current SP which is a benefit for both companies
I side load. That’s why I stick to Android. If they get rid of that I need to find something else. Restricting what your users can do is actually a bad business process and the key thing keeping me away from Apple. If Apple were to actually open their systems and start respecting their users they would get more customers.
Then I have the opposite question: why Apple won’t open IPhones for side loading if it will feet more money?
They have touted for a long time their false equivalency that restriction equals security. If they backtrack on that (I believe) they believe they will lose customers. In reality their fanbase will likely stick with them because that’s what they know and the added functionality will make their offerings a more appealing product.
Now that Europe is forcing their hand on some of this we can see the impacts it will have on their market growth in the coming years. There are other factors that impact this potential shift in market share too:
And (kind of in defense of Apple users, when I find Apple very frustrating to use and Apple fans can be annoying), Apple stuff “just works” if all you want to do are the essentials/what Apple thinks you need.
This is why my work phones are iPhones. I get none of the Android benefits on a locked-down, MDM-managed Android from work. It only syncs with company systems, I’ll never use it for personal stuff. So give me the dead-simple device.
But personally, oh fuck me iOS drives me nuts. Had to use an iPhone for a week recently while I reset my phone and installed DivestOS. What a painful, frustrating experience (and I use an iPad every day already).
Because 99.9% of population doesn’t know what sideloading is, let alone where to find apps and how to sideload them. So, realistically, there isn’t a need for it. Also, Google apps tend to be free with IAP, so no matter where the app comes from, it can still generate them revenue. On Apples side, their apps are mostly paid once upon purchase, so enabling sideloading would effectively cut revenue.
When Android started, I’m not even sure they wanted a centralized store to begin with. Android was going to replace flip phones and their super proprietary and hard to develop for operating systems. Being open-source was part of the appeal for manufacturers (they get to customize it but still be able to run most apps just fine). Being able to sideload apps was important then because the alternative was sending a premium SMS to some number and getting the app on your phone in return. It was a market where the carriers were controlling everything. Also, Android was originally designed to be a camera operating system and later on expanded to target about any portable devices, mainly phones but there were WiFi-only Android devices too.
Open platforms are very appealing to developers. One of the reason I’ll never own an iPhone is, I can’t even try out iOS development without buying a Mac and then buying an annual $200 license to Apple just to have the right to develop for the platform. Young teenage me was like, fuck that, I can just download Eclipse and develop for Android for completely free and even share my app for free!
Android was also very popular with the developers because you could easily build and flash your own builds of Android too, being open-source.
Now it’s too late to backtrack on that without major outrage and scrutiny by legislators. Same reason it’s way too late for Microsoft to attempt to stop sideloading and force everyone to the Microsoft Store.
In today’s world, I think it’s still valuable for Google to let people do all that. The Nexus line and now the Pixel line are the standard when it comes to unlocking your bootloader and flashing a custom ROM. Google encourages developers to do that because they get free beta testing for beta builds, but it also enables security researchers to study the operating system and discover flaws that Google can then fix. They’ve also taken several popular features from custom ROMs and implemented them directly in Android, so people basically design and test new features that Google can just take for free. Things we take for granted like quick settings in the notification tray, that originated in custom ROMs. They also poached a few developers, for example the guy that made Magisk now works at Google in the security department. And as others have pointed out, it shields Google from some legal challenges as they can just say “well if they don’t like the Play Store they can just sideload another one”.
Ultimately too few people even bother sideloading apps for them to really care or affect the Play Store revenue. 99.99% of people won’t ever download anything outside of the Play Store.