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I just found out that Embark used genAI to replace recalling it’s voice actors. And I am devastated. It was my GOTY and now I’m boycotting it. To the point that I decided to be vocal about it.
I don’t want any AI (not talking about machine learning for the way the Arcs move, I’m talking about the voice actors being replaced) in the work of art that I think are the video games I play.
To game developers: Stop using AI in your video games!
Je viens de découvrir que Embark a utilisé de l’IA générative pour remplacer ses acteurs. Et franchement je suis tellement déçu. C’était clairement mon GOTY, et maintenant je me retrouve à boycotter tout ça, au point de carrément en faire des posts pour toucher le plus de monde possible.
Je ne veux aucune IA (et attention, je ne parle pas du machine learning utilisé pour les déplacements des Arcs) dans les oeuvres d’art que je consomme.
Aux développeurs: Arrêtez d’utiliser de l’IA dans les jeux vidéos !
But its in agreement with the voice actors. I don’t get the big deal. I’m not pro AI but why would you abandon a game you enjoy for that reason? Praise them for making an Unreal engine game that looks and runs great.
If SAG hadn’t gone on strike, Netflix would also have been making agreements with actors to use their voice and likeness without actually offering future work too. Was SAG wrong to push against this?
Just because someone makes a deal doesn’t mean it isn’t a toxic business practice that’s bad for the industry or the people involved in it. People also agree to work for subpar wages, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for higher minimum wages.
Because desperate voice actors famously have so much leverage in contract negotiations, right? Why do you think Hollywood actors and writers unions went on strike in 2023?
While i think it sucks, and the only reason they take this weird approach is that the embark guy is a turbo AI bro. What i don’t understand why they even bother, since arc raiders has only like 10 voice lines
I agree, this game has an awesome tech team making a clear counter-argument to UE5 haters (I hate UE5, they used very well imho).
The graphism are cool and the art is really a work of art! I love the world design, lore, color grading, design-language, weapon design, etc.
The voice acting got through what I consider my keen 6th sense of AI-detection (which scares me tbh). But this is something that I cannot let go, I don’t want to. Even though everything else is (for a multiplayer game) top-notch imo.
What’s the boundary if we let them do this to one aspect of the game then? What amount of AI slop are we going to accept in the future if we allow corporations to AI-creep into everything?
I want to vote with my wallet and with my voice to support what I think isn’t the right direction.
Even though the voice actors signed the contract: I, as a customer/fan, don’t want workers signing off their ability to work more. These voice actors won’t ever work again with Embark now, Embark don’t need another recording session from them. Ok, actors waved that opportunity away willingly. But I don’t want the whole industry to become like this.
It’s not because the genAI trend isn’t going away that we aren’t allowed to adapt to it. My adaptation is to fight for an AI-free label.
PS: On another front, Embark has made millions, if not more on this game. Don’t tell me they HAD to use genAI instead of paying those voice actors for reshoot to begin with.
I love the dev behind ARC Raiders. I hate the management team that forced AI into the project (I can’t prove this claim, call that a hunch)
The reason I’ve heard they are doing it so they can pump out dialoge faster and they don’t have to let the voice actors come in for every line whenever they add a new map with new way points for example.
I understand that this would be costly. But imho this isn’t a good reason. There is imo only two ethic ways to solve this kind of problem:
Understand that the goal is too hard to handle. Abandon the voice acting on the ping system.
Put the means, even if this is costly*
*: As I said, Embark is a big company, they made millions of dollars. They can afford it. It is absurd to me to allow such a big structure to “cut costs” by removing the human factors.
Do you know the specifics of their contracts with the VA-s? Are you certain they’re not paying the VA-s for using their voice (even if it is AI generated)? What is the ethical dilemma if VA-s are getting paid whenever a new voiceline is created?
But are they also getting paid after the fact? Let’s say $50 any time a new voiceline is added to the game using their voice. Because Embark is using a tool to do the work someone would’ve done manually, they would’ve had to pay the person otherwise so I think a royalty-like payment any time the VA voice is used is completely fair. Otherwise it becomes what people are complaining about, that they’re effectively paying a one time fee for the VA voice and then use it for free for forever.
they’re effectively paying a one time fee for the VA voice and then use it for free for forever.
yes, that’s what they agreed to and were paid for. and that’s perfectly fine, they weren’t duped and had no issues with it, so even the flimsy moral outrage people come up with over supposed rights to things they create doesn’t apply.
Call me crazy but I think people getting cheated out of the fruits of their labor, even if they themselves might’ve signed their it away, should be criticized.
Marketing this as “text-to-speech” is oversimplyfying at best, dishonest at worst imho.
People need to work, we can’t blame the voice actors. But in the end they still are working against themselves/their peers.
TTS has existed for decades, machine learning for less than 20 years, genAI as we know it for less than 5.
Those 3 things are not the same thing. Yes the genAI they used can be included as a TTS because it is one. But only in function.
You are playing on words here. Most people know TTS as a crappy old thing, here this is something way more advanced.
Even if it was the same thing to begin with. I wouldn’t be like a company using a simple TTS capable of recreating the voice of a voice actor I like without paying them the same as if the company hired them.
I don’t know the details. And I agree that if every line generated with their voice is paid (at least partially) I don’t see as big of a problem as I stated.
But call me cynical: I don’t think they were paid for generated voice lines. I would gladly be corrected on this matter though.
Sorry if I sounded angry or something.
My goal is to debate around this subject I feel passionate about. I’m not really sure I would call all of this “being upfront” but that may be another subject.
I’m not an English native, so my words could be harsher that it should. Sorry again.
And thank you for answering and participating about the whole thing. No hard feelings I hope!
first of all, yes. I’m an anarchist, I don’t believe in copyright, it’s capitalist bullshit. you can’t own ideas. anything you create is as much mine as it is yours, and I’ll use it for whatever purposes I want with or without your permission.
second, this isn’t genAI, it’s no different than the text-to-speech system that’s been in use in PC for decades. don’t come in here moaning about genAI when you don’t even know what the system you’re talking about even is.
But this is something that I cannot let go, I don’t want to.
that’s too bad, considering most people are looking at this with a rational mind and don’t agree with you, and you have no ability to change it by yourself.
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But its in agreement with the voice actors. I don’t get the big deal. I’m not pro AI but why would you abandon a game you enjoy for that reason? Praise them for making an Unreal engine game that looks and runs great.
If SAG hadn’t gone on strike, Netflix would also have been making agreements with actors to use their voice and likeness without actually offering future work too. Was SAG wrong to push against this?
Just because someone makes a deal doesn’t mean it isn’t a toxic business practice that’s bad for the industry or the people involved in it. People also agree to work for subpar wages, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for higher minimum wages.
Because desperate voice actors famously have so much leverage in contract negotiations, right? Why do you think Hollywood actors and writers unions went on strike in 2023?
While i think it sucks, and the only reason they take this weird approach is that the embark guy is a turbo AI bro. What i don’t understand why they even bother, since arc raiders has only like 10 voice lines
I agree, this game has an awesome tech team making a clear counter-argument to UE5 haters (I hate UE5, they used very well imho). The graphism are cool and the art is really a work of art! I love the world design, lore, color grading, design-language, weapon design, etc.
The voice acting got through what I consider my keen 6th sense of AI-detection (which scares me tbh). But this is something that I cannot let go, I don’t want to. Even though everything else is (for a multiplayer game) top-notch imo.
What’s the boundary if we let them do this to one aspect of the game then? What amount of AI slop are we going to accept in the future if we allow corporations to AI-creep into everything?
I want to vote with my wallet and with my voice to support what I think isn’t the right direction.
Even though the voice actors signed the contract: I, as a customer/fan, don’t want workers signing off their ability to work more. These voice actors won’t ever work again with Embark now, Embark don’t need another recording session from them. Ok, actors waved that opportunity away willingly. But I don’t want the whole industry to become like this.
It’s not because the genAI trend isn’t going away that we aren’t allowed to adapt to it. My adaptation is to fight for an AI-free label.
PS: On another front, Embark has made millions, if not more on this game. Don’t tell me they HAD to use genAI instead of paying those voice actors for reshoot to begin with.
I love the dev behind ARC Raiders. I hate the management team that forced AI into the project (I can’t prove this claim, call that a hunch)
The reason I’ve heard they are doing it so they can pump out dialoge faster and they don’t have to let the voice actors come in for every line whenever they add a new map with new way points for example.
If its purely for the sake of velocity, than the performers should be compensated the same as if they were in studio. This is a slippery slope.
I understand that this would be costly. But imho this isn’t a good reason. There is imo only two ethic ways to solve this kind of problem:
*: As I said, Embark is a big company, they made millions of dollars. They can afford it. It is absurd to me to allow such a big structure to “cut costs” by removing the human factors.
Do you know the specifics of their contracts with the VA-s? Are you certain they’re not paying the VA-s for using their voice (even if it is AI generated)? What is the ethical dilemma if VA-s are getting paid whenever a new voiceline is created?
the voice actors were paid to create the text-to-speech system, yes. that was why they were hired in the first place.
But are they also getting paid after the fact? Let’s say $50 any time a new voiceline is added to the game using their voice. Because Embark is using a tool to do the work someone would’ve done manually, they would’ve had to pay the person otherwise so I think a royalty-like payment any time the VA voice is used is completely fair. Otherwise it becomes what people are complaining about, that they’re effectively paying a one time fee for the VA voice and then use it for free for forever.
yes, that’s what they agreed to and were paid for. and that’s perfectly fine, they weren’t duped and had no issues with it, so even the flimsy moral outrage people come up with over supposed rights to things they create doesn’t apply.
Call me crazy but I think people getting cheated out of the fruits of their labor, even if they themselves might’ve signed their it away, should be criticized.
Marketing this as “text-to-speech” is oversimplyfying at best, dishonest at worst imho. People need to work, we can’t blame the voice actors. But in the end they still are working against themselves/their peers.
it is literally a text-to-speech system. saying otherwise is just ignorant.
TTS has existed for decades, machine learning for less than 20 years, genAI as we know it for less than 5.
Those 3 things are not the same thing. Yes the genAI they used can be included as a TTS because it is one. But only in function.
You are playing on words here. Most people know TTS as a crappy old thing, here this is something way more advanced.
Even if it was the same thing to begin with. I wouldn’t be like a company using a simple TTS capable of recreating the voice of a voice actor I like without paying them the same as if the company hired them.
I don’t know the details. And I agree that if every line generated with their voice is paid (at least partially) I don’t see as big of a problem as I stated.
But call me cynical: I don’t think they were paid for generated voice lines. I would gladly be corrected on this matter though.
That was the case with The Finals (Embark’s previous game) according to testimony by the team, and they are using the same development practices here.
I’m not here to argue with you. I dont mind them using Ai. They are upfront about it. You should do whatever you think is the right thing.
Sorry if I sounded angry or something. My goal is to debate around this subject I feel passionate about. I’m not really sure I would call all of this “being upfront” but that may be another subject.
I’m not an English native, so my words could be harsher that it should. Sorry again.
And thank you for answering and participating about the whole thing. No hard feelings I hope!
well, ethics aren’t subjective, morals are. and there’s nothing unethical about what they’re doing here.
It seems to me you are playing with words. Pilaging all internet resources to create and profit on genAI isn’t unethical to you?
Independent artists have found evidence that their work has been scraped to train most of big genAI tools for years now. That’s A-OK for you?
first of all, yes. I’m an anarchist, I don’t believe in copyright, it’s capitalist bullshit. you can’t own ideas. anything you create is as much mine as it is yours, and I’ll use it for whatever purposes I want with or without your permission.
second, this isn’t genAI, it’s no different than the text-to-speech system that’s been in use in PC for decades. don’t come in here moaning about genAI when you don’t even know what the system you’re talking about even is.
don’t feed the troll they say…
you imagined your poorly thought out argument was going to be some kind of gotcha.
that’s too bad, considering most people are looking at this with a rational mind and don’t agree with you, and you have no ability to change it by yourself.